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Return-Path: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j2NIS9G11354; Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:28:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:28:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <238320-220053323182627738@M2W045.mail2web.com> Errors-To: email@example.com Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Originator: email@example.com Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <email@example.com> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1015] Re: Use of test scores X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Status: O Content-Length: 6901 Lines: 154 I found that when I was both assessing and teaching in ABE/ESL, I'd have to do my own skills breakdowns of CASAS test items and tasks. Teaching the tasks (not just the content, the "right" answer) is also a plus. If curriculum was competency based I could use the CASAS and its curriculum matrix, but it wasn't always reflective of the students' needs. I would do the charting that would allow me to see if an entire group of students, or just selected ones, had trouble on particular test items, and give students the lists of competencies tested and which ones they had trouble with. Best regards, Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. English Language Institute, Writing Center Post University, Waterbury, CT Original Message: ----------------- From: Condelli, Larry LCondelli@air.org Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:41:26 -0500 (EST) To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1014] Re: Use of test scores Katrina, I think your experiences reflect what most teachers feel about NRS assessments. We don't have very many assessment instruments in adult education that meet the rigorous psychometric requirements of the NRS, and the ones we do use (TABE, CASAS, BEST, etc.) have to be used sometimes for broad purposes. They do meet accountability requirements and offer some information about student performance, but they are often inadequate for informing instruction. We do recommend the use of other assessments for instructional and other purposes, although we run the risk of too much assessment on students if we go too far. Limited time is also a factor. Marie has suggested the use of performance assessments for this purpose. Such assessments can also be standardized and used in the NRS (the BEST Plus is an example) but it is very difficult to do all of the research and development work. However, many programs use performance assessments or curriculum-based assessments to supplement the information from NRS tests. -----Original Message----- From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 8:27 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1013] Re: Use of test scores In response to Larry's questions forwarded by Marie: Do teachers/program staff have access to test scores? We do have access to them. They are given to us when a new student arrives. Additionally, instructors are responsible for monitoring when post tests are needed and ensuring that the students are post tested . Do they use them? How? If not, why not? How are they useful -- do they help instruction? I can't speak for everyone in my program. I will say I use them - but only as a guideline. I learned a long time ago that the placement test scores did little to really tell me what a student knew or didn't know. I explain to my students that the placement test scores are just that, a means by which to place a student in the appropriate classes to ensure their success. They are not at all useful in terms of instruction and I think they give students a false sense of security. I have students that come in and assume b/c they tested at a 9.something level that they should be able to just take the GED and I have to explain to them why that's not neccessarily true. Then I give a student my own pre tests to see where they are in terms of being able to pass the GED often, they come back and admit they're not as ready as they thought. I then have to answer the question "How come I did so well on the placement tests but not on the pre tests you gave?" What are the shortcomings? What could be done at the state/federal levels to help programs use test scores? For example what kinds of analysis/assistance might be helpful? The shortcomings are that the placement tests are not as broad reaching as say the GED tests. It is by no means a fair leap to assume that simply b/c you place at the GED High level according to the TABE that you're automatically ready to take the GED. That simply isn't so but students get so caught up in the "placement" level that it sometimes creates the "I already know that" barrier. For example, of the list of assessments that can be used for the NRS (and I don't have that in front of me so I don't know them all off hand), what do you get out of the TABE, BEST Plus, CASAS, for example?The NRS certainly uses that data - but can you or do you? How and what for? Does it inform your teaching and your classroom? I use it as a guideline, sort of a baseline to see where a student MIGHT be...but that's it. I have students who come in at the GED Intermediate or High level and yet when I give them the a pre test to determine where their level is in relation to the GED, they are no where near ready - often missing more than 50% of a 50 question test. Additionally, when asked during a personal interview with the student, when they left traditional school and find out they left in 7th grade I find myself asking how they scored at a 9th grade level or even higher in some cases, especially if they have not been previously enrolled in a basic skills class. I think the placement and test scores are guidelines but not something that can replace one on one interviewing and assessment done between the teacher and student. I also don't think they are used the same by all teachers. Katrina >>> email@example.com 03/22/05 10:24 AM >>> Hi everyone, Larry posed some really good questions I think. I often wonder if people/programs use data for program improvement (and how), so the variation below on that theme is particularly interesting for me: Do teachers/program staff have access to test scores? Do they use them? How? If not, why not? How are they useful -- do they help instruction? What are the shortcomings? What could be done at the state/federal levels to help programs use test scores? For example what kinds of analysis/assistance might be helpful? For example, of the list of assessments that can be used for the NRS (and I don't have that in front of me so I don't know them all off hand), what do you get out of the TABE, BEST Plus, CASAS, for example? The NRS certainly uses that data - but can you or do you? How and what for? Does it inform your teaching and your classroom? Has anyone developed performance assessments that are being used now for the NRS? Intuitively I feel like that type of assessment would be readily used by teachers, but that it is less accessible for the NRS. Larry, can you or anyone comment on this? Thanks, marie marie cora Moderator, NIFL Assessment Discussion List, and Coordinator/Developer LINCS Assessment Special Collection at http://literacy.kent.edu/Midwest/assessment/ firstname.lastname@example.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
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