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Return-Path: <email@example.com> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j5NMX5G14626; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <015f01c57844$93d8b7d0$0202a8c0@frodo> Errors-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Reply-To: email@example.com Originator: firstname.lastname@example.org Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk From: "Marie Cora" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <email@example.com> Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1129] FW: RE: Literacy needs X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 5958 Lines: 169 Hello everyone, The following post is from Nancy Hansen. marie Nancy Hansen Executive Director Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council firstname.lastname@example.org 605) 332-BOOK ....................................................................... ................................................. Dear Michael and Tina et all, I have a real problem with the value system that drives the process that you both implement. I am a literacy provider who doesn't test the community-based literacy-level registrants who come to us for help. Instead I evaluate their reading, writing and life skills. I do not have GED students either. So perhaps that's where my philosophy goes off-to-the-left of many instructors/administrators like you. Michael commented << If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of students being pre-and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you will likely get lower scores than you would once they're comfortable.>> To which Tina replied <<I agree with you that the reason our program will probably decide to continue giving the TABE at intake is .. because we are likely to get lower TABE scores from them when they are first entering ...>> Have either of you considered the inhumanity behind your decision? Have either of you thought about the learners' self-image and what it does to their confidence failing immediately at intake? And all for the sake of a number that can be placed in a report. Where a post-test won't even show a significant level change (much less 2 grade levels in literacy level students.) I get the literacy-level adults who are, for the sake of numbers, tested like your learners are. They come to our program from GED-prep programs like yours where, after the student has been subjected to the above process, leap/jump/flee ship !!! They've come with their heads hung low, thinking they cannot succeed in *this* program either. I have even had men and women (mostly men) say to me *directly*, "I must be dumber than I thought I was because I couldn't even pass their TABE test." And they don't come immediately! It can be months (up to a year) later before they "dare" try again somewhere else. It takes a very long time for the Testing Wounds to heal after standardized, timed tests knock the pins right out from under them. I realize that funding drives *you* because testing is required by the fed's. And there may be a sensible reason to test GED students. But do all of the adult education entrants come wanting to achieve a GED and enroll in classes to do so? Don't you have men and women who want to increase their personal capabilities and improve their life skills? Their needs are not being met by giving them a low score that they have to raise in the post-testing timeframe. They know they've received a poor score. And my belief is they hurt because they are ashamed of that number their pracititioner has just given them. It's way more than "discouragement" as Michael puts it. It's a loss of self-esteem. I feel so strongly that there needs to be a broad base of advocates who value people more than numbers among those who have the power to change the assessment systems in our adult education field. Is that a fantasy? Must be. There are more like you than like me who come here to chat. Nancy Hansen Sioux Falls, SD Tina_Luffman@yc.edu wrote: Hi Michael, I agree with you that the reason our program will probably decide to continue giving the TABE at intake is not only to locate the students into curriculum as soon as possible, but also because we are likely to get lower TABE scores from them when they are first entering the process rather than later when they are back into school mode. Tina Tina Luffman Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED Verde Valley Campus 634-6544 email@example.com -----firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: ----- To: Multiple recipients of list <email@example.com> From: "Michael & Sunay Gyori" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sent by: email@example.com Date: 06/22/2005 02:41PM Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1113] RE: Literacy needs Hi Tina, If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of students being pre- and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you will likely get lower scores than you would once they're comfortable. Under the Adult Education & Family Literacy Act (AEFLA), students can receive up to 10 hours of instruction before they are tested. Michael Michael A. Gyori, Educational Linguist Language Development & Technology Director Language and Literacy Resource Center Hui Malama Learning Center, Inc. 375 Mahalani Street Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, 96793, U.S.A. Tel: (808) 249-0111 Fax: (808) 249-0119 E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org Website: www.huimalama.org http://www.huimalama.org/> ________________________________ From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Tina_Luffman@yc.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:07 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1112] RE: Literacy needs Hi Michael, I agree with you that giving the TABE test on the first day of orientation is a discouragement for students. Because our funding requires that we test initially and then after a period of study, and then show educational gains, we feel it is necessary to maximize our potential for showing student progress and maintaining our grant program by giving the exam first. I can see good rationale behind waiting a few weeks and having students begin with group lessons to create a community atmosphere, especially for those with a negative educational background. I will consider your ideas and find out if my program is willing to try this out. Tina Tina Luffman Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED Verde Valley Campus 634-6544 email@example.com! mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org> < Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
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