NIFL-ASSESSMENT 2005: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1130] RE: FW: RE: Litera

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From: Jackson, Varshna (varshna.jackson@twc.state.tx.us)
Date: Thu Jun 23 2005 - 18:56:34 EDT


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From: "Jackson, Varshna" <varshna.jackson@twc.state.tx.us>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1130] RE: FW: RE: Literacy needs
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Given a supply-side performance system, I'm not at all surprised at the
candid discussion of how to game the numbers--it happens in workforce.
Frankly, I've never understood why we are using grade-level equivalency as a
proxy for what adults needs to know to be able to function at work, home and
the community, and how well they are able to do those tasks as a result of
receiving instruction--as if learning stops at the 12th grade. I can only
imagine the sheer horror of being classified as being at the 9th-grade level
in reading, having failed or done poorly in K-12, when I'm 35.


-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Marie Cora
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1129] FW: RE: Literacy needs


Hello everyone,

The following post is from Nancy Hansen.  
marie

á
Nancy Hansen
Executive Director
Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
sfallsliteracy@yahoo.com
605) 332-BOOK
......................................................................
................................................
Dear Michael and Tina et all,
á
I have a real problem with the value system that drives the process thatáyou
both implement.á 
á
I am a literacy provider who doesn't test the community-based
literacy-leveláregistrants who come to us for help.á Instead Iáevaluate
their reading, writing and life skills.á I do not have GED students either.á
So perhaps that's where my philosophy goes off-to-the-left of many
instructors/administrators like you.
á
Michael commentedá<< If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of
students being pre-and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you
will likely get lower scores than you would once they're comfortable.>> To
which Tina replied <<I agree with you that the reason our program will
probably decide to continue giving the TABE at intake is ..ábecause we are
likely to getálower TABE scoresáfrom them when they are first entering ...>>
Have either of you considered the inhumanity behind your decision?á Have
either of you thought about the learners'áself-image and what it does to
their confidence failing immediately at intake?á And all for the sake of a
number that can be placed in a report.á Where a post-test won't even show a
significant level change (much less 2 grade levels in literacy level
students.) I get the literacy-level adultsáwho are, for the sake of
numbers,átested like your learners are.á They come toáour programáfrom
GED-prep programs like yours where,áafter the studentáhas been subjected to
the above process,áleap/jump/flee ship !!!á They've come with their heads
hung low, thinking they cannot succeed in *this* program either.á I have
even had men and women (mostly men) say to me *directly*, "I must be dumber
than I thought I wasábecause I couldn't even pass their TABEátest."á 
And they don't come immediately!á Itácan be months (up to a year) later
before they "dare" try again somewhere else.á It takes a very long time for
the Testing Wounds to heal after standardized,átimed testsáknock the pins
right outáfrom under them. I realize that funding drivesá*you* because
testing is required by the fed's.á And there may be a sensible reason to
test GED students.á But do all of the adult education entrants come wanting
to achieve a GED and enroll in classes to do so?á Don't you haveámen and
women who want to increase their personal capabilities and improve their
life skills?á
Their needs are not being met by giving them a low score that they have to
raise in the post-testing timeframe.á 
They knowáthey've received a pooráscore.á And my belief is theyáhurt because
they are ashamed of that number their pracititioner hasájust given them.á
It's way more than "discouragement" as Michael puts it.á
It's a loss of self-esteem.
I feel so strongly thatáthere needs to be a broad base of advocates who
value people more than numbers among those who have the power to change the
assessment systems in our adult education field.á Is that a fantasy?á Must
be.á There are more like you than like me who come here to chat. Nancy
Hansen Sioux Falls, SD

Tina_Luffman@yc.edu wrote:
Hi Michael,
á
I agree with you that the reason our program will probably decide to
continue giving the TABE at intake is not only to locate the students into
curriculum as soon as possible, but also because we are likely to getálower
TABE scoresáfrom them when they are first entering the process rather than
later when they are back into school mode. 
á
Tina




Tina Luffman
Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED
Verde Valley Campus
634-6544
tina_luffman@yc.edu

-----nifl-assessment@nifl.gov wrote: -----
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
From: "Michael & Sunay Gyori" <michaelsunay@hawaii.rr.com>
Sent by: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
Date: 06/22/2005 02:41PM
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1113] RE: Literacy needs

Hi Tina,

If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of students being
pre-
and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you will likely get
lower scores than you would once they're comfortable. Under the Adult
Education & Family Literacy Act (AEFLA), students can receive up to 10 hours
of instruction before they are tested. 

Michael

Michael A. Gyori, Educational Linguist
Language Development & Technology Director
Language and Literacy Resource Center
Hui Malama Learning Center, Inc.
375 Mahalani Street
Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, 96793, U.S.A.

Tel: (808) 249-0111
Fax: (808) 249-0119
E-mail: michael.gyori@huimalama.org
Website: www.huimalama.org http://www.huimalama.org/> á

________________________________

From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On Behalf
Of Tina_Luffman@yc.edu
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:07 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1112] RE: Literacy needs


Hi Michael,

I agree with you that giving the TABE test on the first day of orientation
is a discouragement for students. Because our funding requires that we test
initially and then after a period of study, and then show educational gains,
we feel it is necessary to maximize our potential for showing student
progress and maintaining our grant program by giving the exam first. I can
see good rationale behind waiting a few weeks and having students begin with
group lessons to create a community atmosphere, especially for those with a
negative educational background. I will consider your ideas and find out if
my program is willing to try this out.


Tina





Tina Luffman
Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED
Verde Valley Campus
634-6544
tina_luffman@yc.edu! mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu> < 

áááá
áááááááááááá



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