NIFL-ASSESSMENT 2005: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1142] RE: FW: RE: Litera

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From: Marie Cora (marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com)
Date: Fri Jun 24 2005 - 11:12:51 EDT 

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From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1142] RE: FW: RE: Literacy needs
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Hi Varshna, thanks for this.

Yes, I will show my colors (not the first time, eh?) that I also think
using GLEs (Grade Level Equivalents) is not a great thing for our field
and the population we serve.

Another post (apologies that I don't recall who all of you posted it - I
usually like to call you by name) also noted that it's time to put
pressure on our system to come together as a voice to influence some of
the accountability issues that lead to funding and classroom to be at
odds with one another.

So some comments:

-some states are in fact moving away from GLEs and using Scale Scores
instead (see http://www.sabes.org/assessment/scalescores.htm for how
Mass. is using these)
-I'll raise my "vision" here in response to making change on a national
scale:  that practitioners need to (learn how to) get involved with test
development, construction, implementation, and interpretation.  Until we
all do, we don't have enough knowledge base, or practitioner research
data, to make a case for change.  An alternative must be suggested in
order for someone to sit up and listen.  That said, I know that small
pieces of this change are indeed happening in some states already.

And questions:

If your state or your program is using Scale Scores, or is using some
other way of reporting testing scores, can you let us know what and how
you are doing it?

If you don't get federal funding, what does your accountability system
look like?

If you are an EFF (Equipped for the Future) state, for example, what
does your accountability system look like?

Thanks!

marie cora
Moderator, NIFL Assessment Discussion List, and 
Coordinator/Developer LINCS Assessment Special Collection at 
http://literacy.kent.edu/Midwest/assessment/
 
 
marie.cora@hotspurpartners.com




-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Jackson, Varshna
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:56 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1130] RE: FW: RE: Literacy needs

Given a supply-side performance system, I'm not at all surprised at the
candid discussion of how to game the numbers--it happens in workforce.
Frankly, I've never understood why we are using grade-level equivalency
as a
proxy for what adults needs to know to be able to function at work, home
and
the community, and how well they are able to do those tasks as a result
of
receiving instruction--as if learning stops at the 12th grade. I can
only
imagine the sheer horror of being classified as being at the 9th-grade
level
in reading, having failed or done poorly in K-12, when I'm 35.


-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On
Behalf
Of Marie Cora
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 5:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1129] FW: RE: Literacy needs


Hello everyone,

The following post is from Nancy Hansen.  
marie

 
Nancy Hansen
Executive Director
Sioux Falls Area Literacy Council
sfallsliteracy@yahoo.com
605) 332-BOOK
.....................................................................
...............................................
Dear Michael and Tina et all,
 
I have a real problem with the value system that drives the process
that you
both implement.  
 
I am a literacy provider who doesn't test the community-based
literacy-level registrants who come to us for help.  Instead I evaluate
their reading, writing and life skills.  I do not have GED students
either. 
So perhaps that's where my philosophy goes off-to-the-left of many
instructors/administrators like you.
 
Michael commented << If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage
of
students being pre-and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as
you
will likely get lower scores than you would once they're comfortable.>>
To
which Tina replied <<I agree with you that the reason our program will
probably decide to continue giving the TABE at intake is .. because we
are
likely to get lower TABE scores from them when they are first entering
..>>
Have either of you considered the inhumanity behind your decision?  Have
either of you thought about the learners' self-image and what it does to
their confidence failing immediately at intake?  And all for the sake of
a
number that can be placed in a report.  Where a post-test won't even
show a
significant level change (much less 2 grade levels in literacy level
students.) I get the literacy-level adults who are, for the sake of
numbers, tested like your learners are.  They come to our program from
GED-prep programs like yours where, after the student has been subjected
to
the above process, leap/jump/flee ship !!!  They've come with their
heads
hung low, thinking they cannot succeed in *this* program either.  I have
even had men and women (mostly men) say to me *directly*, "I must be
dumber
than I thought I was because I couldn't even pass their TABE test."  
And they don't come immediately!  It can be months (up to a year) later
before they "dare" try again somewhere else.  It takes a very long time
for
the Testing Wounds to heal after standardized, timed tests knock the
pins
right out from under them. I realize that funding drives *you* because
testing is required by the fed's.  And there may be a sensible reason to
test GED students.  But do all of the adult education entrants come
wanting
to achieve a GED and enroll in classes to do so?  Don't you have men and
women who want to increase their personal capabilities and improve their
life skills? 
Their needs are not being met by giving them a low score that they have
to
raise in the post-testing timeframe.  
They know they've received a poor score.  And my belief is they hurt
because
they are ashamed of that number their pracititioner has just given
them. 
It's way more than "discouragement" as Michael puts it. 
It's a loss of self-esteem.
I feel so strongly that there needs to be a broad base of advocates who
value people more than numbers among those who have the power to change
the
assessment systems in our adult education field.  Is that a fantasy? 
Must
be.  There are more like you than like me who come here to chat. Nancy
Hansen Sioux Falls, SD

Tina_Luffman@yc.edu wrote:
Hi Michael,
 
I agree with you that the reason our program will probably decide to
continue giving the TABE at intake is not only to locate the students
into
curriculum as soon as possible, but also because we are likely to
get lower
TABE scores from them when they are first entering the process rather
than
later when they are back into school mode. 
 
Tina




Tina Luffman
Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED
Verde Valley Campus
634-6544
tina_luffman@yc.edu

-----nifl-assessment@nifl.gov wrote: -----
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-assessment@literacy.nifl.gov>
From: "Michael & Sunay Gyori" <michaelsunay@hawaii.rr.com>
Sent by: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov
Date: 06/22/2005 02:41PM
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1113] RE: Literacy needs

Hi Tina,

If you need to demonstrate gains among a percentage of students being
pre-
and posttested, it's good to test them on intake, as you will likely get
lower scores than you would once they're comfortable. Under the Adult
Education & Family Literacy Act (AEFLA), students can receive up to 10
hours
of instruction before they are tested. 

Michael

Michael A. Gyori, Educational Linguist
Language Development & Technology Director
Language and Literacy Resource Center
Hui Malama Learning Center, Inc.
375 Mahalani Street
Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, 96793, U.S.A.

Tel: (808) 249-0111
Fax: (808) 249-0119
E-mail: michael.gyori@huimalama.org
Website: www.huimalama.org http://www.huimalama.org/>  

________________________________

From: nifl-assessment@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-assessment@nifl.gov] On
Behalf
Of Tina_Luffman@yc.edu
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:07 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: [NIFL-ASSESSMENT:1112] RE: Literacy needs


Hi Michael,

I agree with you that giving the TABE test on the first day of
orientation
is a discouragement for students. Because our funding requires that we
test
initially and then after a period of study, and then show educational
gains,
we feel it is necessary to maximize our potential for showing student
progress and maintaining our grant program by giving the exam first. I
can
see good rationale behind waiting a few weeks and having students begin
with
group lessons to create a community atmosphere, especially for those
with a
negative educational background. I will consider your ideas and find out
if
my program is willing to try this out.


Tina





Tina Luffman
Instructional Specialist, ABE-GED
Verde Valley Campus
634-6544
tina_luffman@yc.edu! mailto:tina_luffman@yc.edu> < 

    
            



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