[Assessment 1221] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: NoQuestions orComments?!

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Mary Lynn Simons macsimoin at hotmail.com
Fri Feb 8 21:23:02 EST 2008



I agree the passing score should not be increased. The GED is not only for college; however, colleges and employers should become more familiar with GED scores. A score of 2500 is a much better predictor of positive college success than a score of 2250. I have taught the GED for many years and anyone with a 2500 score, I consider to be sharp. As for the Spanish GED test takers, many any are not familiar with the USA and may be puzzled by the test. They need to go to a Spanish GED class. The Spanish GED is about the US and most students have a lot to learn about American history, government, and literature.

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:20:25 -0600
From: jschneider at eicc.edu
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1200] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: NoQuestions orComments?!












Let me clarify... I don't know if the test is too hard - I
am certain that it is significantly harder than the old Spanish GED.


I do not speak Spanish, nor am I a psychometrician,
however, in comparison with the old Spanish GED that was written and normed with
the Spanish speaking population, the new form of the GED - having been
translated from the English, with the exact same content and questions as the
English seems contrived to me. And more than one native speaker of Spanish has
commented on the translations in the official practice tests. This may simply be
my bias having worked with both forms of the test.

Regarding the placement of GED recipient in developmental
education - I would wager that this is as true with the new test as it was with
the old. If you read the 1956 Tyler report on the GED, they knew that the score
of 225 (average of 45 per subject exam) on the GED was not really adequate
for college preparation. However, they discovered that if they raised it to
250 (average of 50 per subject exam), college success was
significantly enhanced. Nevertheless, they recommended the 225 as a passing
score because if they increased the passing score to 250, several individuals
who had been successful in college would not have had that opportunity.


An earlier dissertation topic that I abandoned for lack of
a theory-base was to investigate whether a GED score of 2500 or 3000 might be a
better predictor of college success than the 2250? Despite the benefit of
better preparation, I'd hate to see the passing score be increased and make it
that much harder for so many who need the credential to get their foot in the
door. However, if my premise holds water, why couldn't colleges use the GED as
they do an ACT and either not accept a GED student with less than a .... (pick a
score), or if students with a score under ... (pick a score) is admitted,
recognize that they would likely need significant support and/or remediation.


Jim S.



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Forrest
Chisman
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 'The
Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1193] Re: {Dangerous
Content?} RE: NoQuestions orComments?!




Jim,

I’m
with Jodi on this. Many people would take exception with the idea that the
Spanish GED is too hard. I think people who have studied economic/educational
benefits by and large think BOTH the English and Spanish GED’s, as well as high
school diplomas, are TOO EASY. I believe the research shows that GED holders
have a far higher rate of placement in developmental education than do high
school graduates, but that data may be based on the OLD
GED.

Forrest




From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
Jodi Crandall
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:49
AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment
1185] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Jim,



I think you've summarized how I feel as
well.



We can discuss the various options with students, but in the
end, if we offer Spanish Literacy and Spanish GED, it's their choice. Some
will choose to do everything in English and take longer to do it, but others
will choose to work in their own language. For some students, the
Spanish GED provides short-term benefits. But they will still need ESL for
future academic or vocational training, if they have limited
English.



Have any programs tried to encourage students in Spanish
Literacy or Spanish GED to take ESL classes as well?



Jodi










On Feb 8, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Schneider, Jim
wrote:



I feel
compelled to put my two cents in on the Spanish GED.

My
experience is that both Andres and Ted have valid points. Here in Eastern Iowa,
there are few bilingual employers. Employers that are bilingual rarely pay
the best wages and are typically short of employees if there are any signs of
INS.

On the
other hand, many of the students who have completed the Spanish GED are already
employed, and have fairly decent English skills, but are short on time.
Attaining the GED provides them the opportunity for advancement at work and/or
access to postsecondary education/training.

It has
been excruciating watch the one or two who insist on the GED in English get
through the Literature and Writing portions of the test.

And the
difficulty of the new Spanish GED tests are such that it is a rare student who
can pass it. The old Spanish GED was attainable for most learners who had a
6-8th grade education. We have found that it is virtually impossible for anyone
with less than a 10-11 grade education By simply translating the English test
into Spanish and then utilizing the standard scores/norms of the English
test, students who have passed it, have EARNED their
GED.

Jim S.





From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ted Klein
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:49
AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment
1175] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions
orComments?!

Andres,



I'm not too sure that some of your perspectives haven't been
somewhat altered by living in El Paso. I say that with total respect for El Paso
and for your answer. Let me explain. First, I've lived in Texas most of my life,
except for some time overseas. I know just about all of our border towns, from
El Paso to Brownsville. I've also lived in nine countries outside of the United
States and traveled perhaps in twenty more. AXIOM: All over the
world, border towns are different from other towns.
Persons, regardless of ancestry, who live in border towns anywhere
tend to be bicultural and bilingual. They also tend to identify with each other
on close levels as being a well-made "tossed salad." If most or
all of your students plan to stay in El Paso for the rest of their lives, I
totally agree with what you say. However, if they want to go to cities north of
the border area; Dallas, Ft. Worth, Austin, Houston, Waco, or out of state, then
the picture changes. I am almost as comfortable in Spanish as I am in English
and have dealt with persons from every country in Latin America comfortably and
successfully, as well as Spain. However, I do not represent anything close to a
majority, particularly when it comes to having a business. When persons go for
job interviews in non-border towns, being truly bilingual is a great
asset and can even result in higher pay and better opportunities. That is true
for Spanish speakers and English speakers. However, most of
your persons who have had to take the GED in Spanish are not truly bilingual.
That's a fact and when they go for a job interview, the human resources person
doesn't need paperwork to know that there may be communication problems with
clients and on the telephone. The fact is that life is short. However it is long
enough for persons to spend a couple of more years acquiring English if it gives
them more options in life. Again, if they plan to spend their lives in a border
town, this may not be a problem at all.



Three years ago, my wife and I and one of our colleagues,
took an ESL teaching gig at a cookie factory in Austin. Quite a few of
their employees did not speak English and the company wanted to fix that
situation. There were 27 persons who had volunteered to take English classes at
work, maybe six hours a week. The first problem was how to determine
divisions of 27 students among three teachers. I got out a brief "test" that I
had used to determine readiness for the ALCPT tests in the
past.



Here is a copy:




ORAL INTERVIEW
QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE




Block
2
Ted Klein



Questions marked with an
asterisk * are mandatory. Of the remaining questions, ten should be selected at
random. Speech of the interviewer will be at normal speed and clarity, with NO
exaggeration.



1. What is your name please?*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



2. Where are you from?*
-------



3. What part of XXXXXXX are you
from?-------



4. What is your native
language? -------



5. How long have you been in
America? -------



6. Do you read English?*
-------



7. Did you study English in
your country? -------



8. How long did you study
English? -------



9. Are you enjoying the U.S.A?
-------



10. What do you like here?
-------



11. Is there anything that you
don't like? -------



12. Have you studied any other
languages besides English? -------



13. Why do you want to learn
English? -------



14. How many years of education
have you had? -------



15. Do you have any hobbies?
What are they? -------



16. Do you have any American
friends to practice English with? -------



17. Do you work? Where?
-------



18. What are your plans for the
future? -------



19. Why did you come to
America? -------



20. Do you have any questions
for me? -------





Mark responses: 0 no
answer. 0+ telegraphic/very simple response.


1 simple, but complete
response. 1+ functional and clear response.

2 somewhat
elaborate, fairly clear and mostly grammatical
response.



Interviewees with ten or more
answers in the 1+ to 2 range should be ready to take a
written

proficiency test of listening
and reading skills. Non-readers are excluded. (ref: Ques.
6)



The three of us interviewed the 27 candidates together.
19 out of the 27 were not able to answer the second question:
e.g. (Teacher) Where are you from?

(Candidate) ¿Mande? (Teacher) Where are you from?
¿Como? (Teacher) Are you from Mexico? (Candidate) México, "jes." One
answered, "México, no, Peru sí."



The 8 students who were able to answer that question and
maybe four or five more questions were assigned to an "advanced class." The
others were split into two groups. What happened here? Many of these persons had
lived in Austin for some time. Some for up to ten years. Most had families. The
families naturally used Spanish at home, even their children who spoke English
at school. They had Spanish-speaking supervisors. They watched television in
Spanish. They ate at Mexican restaurants. They went to Spanish-speaking doctors.
95% of their friends were Hispanic. In plain language, if they wanted to stay at
the cookie factory, making cookies, they didn't need English,
although the company preferred that they know English for upward mobility. This
program went on for three or four months.The company merged and our program
ended. We did not use Spanish in class. In early training I use materials that I
developed based on some of the old "direct methods;" picture flashcards,
Cuisenaire rods, etc. and we also concentrated strongly on English sounds,
particularly listening and identification. The program went surprisingly well
and many of the students were very disappointed when it ended. They had already
found some new places to go and some were acquiring English-speaking
friends.



So what is the good news? Several of our former students have
entered the Austin Community College AE program and are doing well. One of them
is in my class now. She has a child and often works at night at the cookie
factory. Sometimes she comes in looking very tired, but she's surviving.
She wants to be a Certified Nursing Assistant. She'll make it! She plans to take
the GED in English next year and enter the Nursing Program at ACC. Most of her
future patients will not be bilingual and she will be ready for them.




That's about it.



Ted


www.tedklein-ESL.com



----- Original Message -----


From: andresmuro at aol.com


To: assessment at nifl.gov


Sent: Thursday, February
07, 2008 12:02 PM

Subject: [Assessment 1153]
Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!



Ted:

How would the employer
know the language that Julian took the GED in?
In most states the
certificate does not tell you the Language. Texas is one of the few states
that tells you the language. However, it is so hard to find that most people
wouldn't even know. I have a hard time finding the language reference even
though I have seen millions of certificates. Fact is most employers don't even
know that people can take the GED in anything other than English, don't ask
and do not scrutinize certificates to figure out scores, language, etc. A few
might, but the majority don't. For low literacy Spanish speakers it may take
them a couple of years to be ready to take the GED in Spanish. It make take
them 2 more years to be ready for the English GED. Would you rather hold them
two more years. They can take the GED in Spanish and continue to study
English. Once they have sufficient English, they can decide if they want to
take it in English or to move on to other
things.

Andres




-----Original
Message-----
From: Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com>
To: The
Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thu, 7
Feb 2008 6:58 am
Subject: [Assessment 1150] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No
Questions or Comments?!


Jodi and Andres,



There is one very real problem with taking the GED in
Spanish that I'm aware of. If you have two immigrants, Roberto and Juán, and
they both apply for the same job and if Juán took the GED in Spanish and
Roberto took it in English, guess who gets the job?

Yes, life isn't fair, but most U.S. businesses prefer
persons who have gone "all the way" with English. My students and I have
discussed this and they have seen or know of this situation with their friends
and family members. That is why many AE students remain longer in our ESL
classes. Of course in many border towns, this may not be as important since
many of the employers are Hispanic or are native speakers of English who are
functional in Spanish. However, many customers of the businesses will need to
use English.



In my current class in Austin, Texas with eleven
students, five different languages are spoken. Should we offer the GED in
Arabic, Chinese, Korean, and Juba as well as Spanish?





Ted

www.tedklein-ESL.com







----- Original Message -----


From: andresmuro at aol.com


To: crandall at umbc.edu ; assessment at nifl.gov


Sent: Wednesday,
February 06, 2008 5:21 PM

Subject: [Assessment
1146] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or
Comments?!



Jodi:

The credit ESL
program in the college is very academic. However it provides students with
financial aid and other goodies. We feel that the students will not do well
in a credit academic ESL program until they have a level comparable to GED
in their native language. Also, a GED certificate is a way to demonstrate
ability to benefit to qualify for financial aid. Those students who get into
the credit ESL program without native language literacy don't do well.


Students can attend other ESL classes in the community while they
are attending our classes. We stopped providing ESL because of limited
funding to provide what we would consider meaningful ESL. Also, our Spanish
GED program is fairly intensive and our students would not have enough time
to attend an additional program. We have a few students who may be attending
our classes and an ESL class concurrently. Those are a
minority

The
truth is that we started as an ESL literacy program many years ago. There
was virtually no funding for literacy ESL unless it had all kind
of testing requirements. Also, it is very hard to train teachers to be
really good at ESL. The system that encourages large number of untrained
part timers prevents this from happening.

I know that a lot of
people in these listservs claim exemplary service and illustrate with
examples of what they have done. I don't doubt that their claims are
100% true. However, we are in the minority. If I could get you and
Heide and Elsa and Andy Nash and Leonore and Deborah Schwartz, and Anson
Green and Federico and others to be my ESL teachers, I would have the best
program in the world. However, the fact is that in addition to the barriers
that ESL students face in their daily lives, plus the bureaucratic and
assessment barriers that the system creates for teachers and students, plus
the difficulty hiring and retaining highly qualified ESL staff makes it very
difficult to have a successful ESL program.

I feel that until we get
rid of WIA/NRS it will be tough to create good stuff in a systematic way.


Andres






-----Original
Message-----
From: JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall <crandall at umbc.edu>
To: The
Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed,
6 Feb 2008 1:27 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1141] Re: {Dangerous Content?}
RE: No Questions or Comments?!
Andres,















It is great that you provide Spanish language literacy and GED classes for







your students. There's no question that native language literacy







contributes not just to the development of the first language, but also to







English language development when students take oral ESL classes. There







is some research in this area by Michele Burtoff with Haitians in the U.S.







and there is a lot of research (see especially research by David Ramirez







which compares children who had 6, 3 or no years of bilingual education)







that shows that providing bilingual education not only has all the







benefits that would be expected, but students also achieve in English as







well or better than those who only had instruction in English.















We also found that Spanish GED classes had large numbers of students at







the colleges, since students who take the GED in Spanish are able to







bypass the need for extensive ESL just to get this credential. They might







want to take ESL as well, but the desire for the GED is often for







work-related reasons. I'm not clear on why you ask students to wait until







after they have passed the GED to take ESL classes. Can you tell us a







little more about that?















Of course not all students who enroll in adult ESL are Spanish speakers







and there may not be enough who speak any language to provide literacy







classes for them in their own language, but programs might try to partner







with immigrant or refugee-related community-based organizations which







could reach more students and also identify someone to provide the







instruction. Still, there will be students who will not be able to take







literacy classes in their own languages and for them, a separate ESL







literacy class seems to be the best option.















It would be great to hear from others about their experiences both with







first language (Spanish and other languages) literacy classes, Spanish GED







classes, and literacy ESL classes.















How do you place students in your literacy classes? Do you use a







standardized test or do you have informal ways of determining if someone







would be better served in a literacy ESL class?























Jodi
















>









> Problem is that in many ESL people are placed in ESL classes based on an









> English placement multiple choice test. A student with advanced education









> in L1 and one with little education in L1 may know very little English









> and they may both be placed in the same level. The student with advance









> education will progress much faster than the one with little education.









> The advanced L1 student will understand concepts like sentence,









> paragraph, verb, subject, direct object, adjective, composition and essay









> readily. The one with with little education will need to understand these









> concepts. It takes a while for people to master these concepts. A highly









> educated L2? learner will likely progress faster academically in a second









> language than a fluent native speaker of that? language with limited









> academic education, for the same reason. This is observed regularly in









> universities all over the US. highly educated foreign students who









> acquired English as L2 recently will do better than their Eng









> lish speaking counterparts in academic tasks in English. Jim Cummins has









> articulated this clearly with his BICS and CALPS.









>









> In our program at El Paso Community College we have found evidence of









> this. We stopped doing literacy ESL a while back for this reason. The









> college has an academic ESL program. Instead of doing ESL literacy we









> started offering Spanish Literacy and GED many years ago since the vast









> majority of our students are Spanish speakers. Once our students acquire









> their Spanish GED they transition into the ESL program and do better than









> those students who don't have L1 academic skills. Even if takes them a









> while to acquire the L1 literacy, they will do better. Those with no L1









> literacy often stay in ESL forever and they drop out, start again in









> another program, drop out and continue the same pattern. I think that this









> happens because of the mixture of academically ready students and those









> that are not ready, since most ESL programs focus on traditional









> academics. For L1 low literacy students to be able to progress in L2 there









> has to be a program specifically designed for them that teache









> s skills in L2 in new and innovative ways without interference from









> academically skilled L1 students. Right now we don't have a system that









> systematically does this, and the WIA/NRS system prevents this form









> happening.









>









> Hope that this makes sense,









>









> Andres









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









> -----Original Message-----









> From: Jackie Coelho <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>









> To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>









> Sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 5:01 am









> Subject: [Assessment 1128] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or









> Comments?!









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









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>









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> Forrest,









>









>









> ?? I like the idea of separate classes for those with a literacy









> background and those without. These two groups have such different needs.









> Having both in the class make it difficult for a teacher to meet the needs









> of either group well and I find that often the stronger students dominate









> the class, and their drive push the teacher forward. If the instructor









> does not keep up with the students who are learning at a faster rate, they









> often become frustrated and leave or mentally check out. However, if the









> instructor keeps up with those students, the others are unable to keep up









> and they get frustrated.









>









>









>









> ? I think that literacy could perhaps be separated out. And regardless of









> how you do it, well-trained instructors are essential.









>









>









> Jackie









>









> ?









>









>









> On 2/5/08, Forrest Chisman <forrest at crosslink.net> wrote:









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









> To all of you who commented on level of prior education as a factor in









> student performance:









>









>









> ?









>









>









> Everyone with whom Jodi Crandall and I talked believes that more highly









> educated students do better in terms of ?persistence, learning gains, and









> transitions. And learning theory would lead us to expect this. Regrettably









> we found very little hard data about how much difference prior education









> makes, because too few programs track the level of prior education of









> their students and correlate it with outcomes. DO any of you do this? That









> is, do you have any data on HOW MUCH difference level of prior education









> makes? Or any strong impressions? And are there "cut points" in prior









> education that seem to make a difference -- e.g. students who are









> completely illiterate, students who at least reached high school, high









> school graduates, college graduates, etc. -- ?or is level of prior









> education pretty much of a continuum?









>









>









>









> ?









>









>









> More importantly, what can programs DO to narrow the gap between highly









> educated students and those with less prior education? Presumably students









> with very low levels of education are more likely end up in the lower









> level ESL courses (Literacy or Low-Beginning levels) why are (almost by









> definition) ?in the business of teaching basic literacy and sometimes









> math. Why isn't this enough? In your experience, does the "gap" exist at









> these levels too, or mainly at higher levels? At any levels, would it be









> desirable to place less highly educated students in separate classes from









> those with more education and adjust the curriculum/support systems for









> them accordingly? Some programs have tried "native language literacy" or









> the Spanish GED. What has been the experience of any of you with these









> approaches? Any other ideas? IS there an adult ESL equivalent of









> "bi-lingual education" that should be tried?









>









>









>









> ?









>









>









> It seems to me that we need to come up with better ideas. Because the









> people who study immigration tell us that the level of education of









> immigrants has been falling. And if Immigration Reform mandates large









> numbers of undocumented people to "learn English" (whatever that means),









> ESL programs may be swamped with students who have very little education









> in their native countries and too little money to serve them. ?So anyone









> who has any ideas about how to bridge this "education gap" could help us a









> lot by posting ideas about how to close it on this discussion list.









>









>









>









> ?









>









>









> Forrest Chisman









>









>









> Vice President









>









>









> CAAL









>









>









> ?









>









>









> ??









>









>









> ?









>









>









>









>









> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On









> Behalf Of Tina_Luffman at yc.edu









>









> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:32 PM









> To: The Assessment Discussion List









> Subject: [Assessment 1109] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or









> Comments?!









>









>









>









>









>









>









> ?









>









>









>









> Hi Jackie,









>









> Thank you for this information. I believe this research must be what my









> former Spanish teacher was basing her argument on for bilingual education









> in the K-12 school system.









>









>









> Tina









>









> Tina Luffman









> Coordinator, Developmental Education









> Verde Valley Campus









> 928-634-6544









> tina_luffman at yc.edu









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









>









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>









>









> "Jackie Coelho" <jackie.coelho at gmail.com>









>









> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov









>









>









> 02/05/2008 11:13 AM









>









>









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> Please respond to









> The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>









>









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> To









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> "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>









>









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> Subject









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> [Assessment 1108] Re: {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or ? ? ?









> ?Comments?!









>









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>









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> ?









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> Hi Tina,









>









> This has been researched already and is the basis for the arguement in









> favor of bilingual education, a good idea that was not implemented in









>









> the best way. For many years people have known that a good foundation









> in literacy in the first language will facilitate learning in a second









> or third language.









>









> Another interesting twist is the existence of languages that are not









> written.









>









>









> Jackie









>









>









> On 2/5/08, Tina_Luffman at yc.edu <Tina_Luffman at yc.edu> wrote:









>









>> Hi list members,









>>









>> My experience teaching ELAA students in the GED class is similar to that









>> of









>> Gail. If the student has a solid educational background in the country









>> they









>









>> came from in their native language, they tend to advance rather quickly









>> and









>> get their GED. Those coming with 6th grade educations from their country









>> or









>> lower tend to stay in the GED class for years and do not make much









>









>> advancement.









>>









>> This experience relates well to research done among Native American









>> tribes









>> teaching them English. Those Native Americans who were first taught









>> literacy









>









>> skills in their own tongue learned English much quicker than those who









>> tried









>> to learn literacy skills in English without that background in their own









>> tongue. I also found similar problems when I was learning Spanish. The









>









>> concepts I could mentally translate from English to Spanish were much









>> easier









>> to grasp and learn than those I didn't know in English. Perhaps this is









>> something deserving more research.









>









>>









>> Tina









>> Tina Luffman









>> Coordinator, Developmental Education









>> Verde Valley Campus









>> 928-634-6544









>> tina_luffman at yc.edu









>









>>









>> -----assessment-bounces at nifl.gov wrote: -----









>>









>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>









>









>> From: "Gail Burnett" <gburnett at sanford.org>









>> Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov









>









>> Date: 02/04/2008 06:34PM









>> Subject: [Assessment 1104] {Dangerous Content?} RE: No Questions or









>> Comments?!









>>









>>









>> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed









>









>> Warning: (not named).









>> Warning: Please read the "AttachmentWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more









>> information.









>>









>> In our small adult education program, my experience (just about three









>> years)









>









>> is that students with solid educational backgrounds advance,









>> particularly if









>> they're not working too many hours. Those who advance the slowest, if at









>> all, are immigrants who are barely literate in their first language. I









>> would









>









>> say that lack of education is a bigger factor than lack of time; a









>> student









>> who works full-time and is exhausted often will still succeed because









>> he/she









>> is familiar with academic work, and is goal-oriented. What we do is try









>> to









>









>> get our low-level students to come up with goals, but that's a hard









>> concept









>> in a second language.









>>









>> This does not mean that the factors mentioned in the research don't play









>> a









>









>> part, though. I'm one of those barely-trained teachers (transitioned









>> from









>> another career, got trained mainly through workshops rather than









>> classes).









>> My skill level very well may contribute to students' slow advancement.









>> It's









>









>> hard for small adult education programs to get highly skilled ESL









>> teachers.









>> The pay is low and there are no benefits. But my program is encouraging









>> me









>> to get extra training and has me on a plan of improvement. I think we're









>









>> making some progress.









>>









>> Does this address any of the issues? And am I submitting it right?









>>









>> ________________________________









>>









>









>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Marie Cora









>> Sent: Mon 2/4/2008 6:50 PM









>









>> To: Assessment at nifl.gov









>> Subject: [Assessment 1103] No Questions or Comments?!









>









>>









>>









>> Hello everyone,









>>









>> I'm so surprised! ?No one has anything to comment on regarding your









>> program's effectiveness at helping ESL students advance?? ?I was very









>









>> curious to know if subscribers experience the same types of issues that









>> Dr.









>> Chisman and Dr. Crandall found in their research: ?a lack of intensity









>> of









>> instruction/few protocols for transitioning students/few opportunities









>> for









>









>> professional development.









>>









>> What are the issues in your program that you feel inhibit the ESL









>> student









>> from advancing? ?What do you try to do about that?









>>









>









>> Please post your questions and comments now.









>>









>> Thanks!









>>









>> Marie Cora









>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator









>>









>>









>









>> Marie Cora









>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com









>> <mailto:marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>









>









>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator









>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment









>









>>









>>









>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and









>> intended









>> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are









>> addressed.









>> If you have received this email in error please notify the system









>> manager.









>









>> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for









>> the









>> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not









>> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.









>









>> -------------------------------









>> National Institute for Literacy









>> Assessment mailing list









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>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to









>









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>









>> Email delivered to tina_luffman at yc.edu









>>









>>









>> -------------------------------









>> National Institute for Literacy









>> Assessment mailing list









>









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>>









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--







JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall







Professor, Education Department







Director, Ph.D. Program in Language, Literacy & Culture







Coordinator, Peace Corps Master's International Program in ESOL/Bilingual







Education







University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC)







1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250







ph: 410-455-2313/2376 fax: 410-455-8947/1880







email: crandall at umbc.edu







www.umbc.edu/llc/







www.umbc.edu/esol/







www.umbc.edu/esol/peacecorps.html































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-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to



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Email delivered to andresmuro at aol.com







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Literacy
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To unsubscribe or
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please
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Email delivered to crandall at umbc.edu



JoAnn
(Jodi) Crandall

Professor
and Director

Language,
Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program

Director,
Peace Corps Master's Intl Program in ESOL/Bilingual
Education

University
of Maryland Baltimore County

1000
Hilltop Circle

Baltimore,
MD 21250

tel:
410-455-2313

fax:
410-455-8947

eml:
crandall at umbc.edu









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