[Assessment 1344] Re: collaboration with K-12

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Mary Lynn Simons macsimoin at hotmail.com
Wed Jun 18 18:47:06 EDT 2008

Yes, this is an idea that the public and guidance counselors must get out of their heads: the GED is not "a walk in the park". The GED is normed so that one-third of high school graduates cannot pass it. If we consider a low-performing school, it is more like 50% or 60% who cannot pass the GED. Struggling students should stay in school, regular or continuation, to get as many credits as possible. Then, if they still do not succeed, they can go to an adult school to complete their credits; however, if they find learning difficult, the GED is not for them. The GED is more difficult than high school exit exams, which some states have. I am a GED/HSD teacher in California and I can definitely tell you that the GED is more difficult than the California High School Exit Examination. Also, since California is a low performing state, I can say confidently that far more than 30% of high school graduates in California cannot pass the GED. People should also know that the GED was made more difficult in 2002, and it will continue to change in the future. As high school graduates improve, and they are improving throughout the country, the GED will become more difficult accordingly.

> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:01:32 -0500

> From: joanne.egan at verizon.net

> To: assessment at nifl.gov

> CC: assessment at nifl.gov

> Subject: [Assessment 1343] Re: collaboration with K-12


> I have been very interested to read the ideas on this list about working

> with schools. Not many of the leaners in our program have young

> children, so I don't know how well we could work the angle of our

> services having impact on their work. Still, I really like the idea of

> collaboration, and I think that distributing flyers at schools could

> reach so many adults that aren't being served.


> Katrina mentioned some schools seeing Adult Ed as competition (and I've

> read elsewhere about that tension between some high schools and ABE/ASE

> programs.) She pointed out that some schools may perceive Adult Ed as

> stealing students out of their system. This is interesting to me, as

> I've often encountered a different source of tension: Staff at many

> Adult Ed programs have witnessed h.s. guidance counselors who actually

> encourage some students to drop out, saying students can always get

> their GED later. I know of a few programs in my state who have reached

> out to schools with the message that passing the GED isn't a walk in the

> park and that staying in school is usually a far better option!


> Either way, it seems to me that greater collaboration between Adult Ed

> and K-12 could be of benefit to both.



> Joanne Baillie Egan

> Intake/Assessment Specialist

> Learning Is For Tomorrow, Inc.

> 7 S Wolfe St

> Baltimore, MD 21231

> 410-522-1705



> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Anderson, Philip wrote:


>> To add to Miriam's thoughts, we in Florida strongly encourage adult

>> education programs to pay a brief, upbeat visit when school starts in

>> the fall, and again in January to the K12 schools to give flyers about

>> the adult education program, the new schedule of classes, and to talk

>> personally with the principal or designee. Building a positive

>> relationship with a contact at the district level and in each school

>> is

>> so important. Teacher recruiting opportunities arise in the K12

>> schools, and it can work well when circumstances lead to the evening

>> adult education instructor teaching the parents of their daytime K12

>> ELL

>> students. Schools are glad to send fliers home with children that

>> market the adult education classes, especially when the adult

>> education

>> staff delivers them collated into neat packages for each classroom.

>> My experience working in rural areas of central Florida is that

>> teachers

>> and administrators in the K-12 system become so overwhelmed with

>> mandates from all sides, any effort to collaborate works better when

>> it

>> is portrayed as a realistic way to help them achieve their goals with

>> a

>> minimal investment of time and resources on their part. Especially

>> this

>> year, with Florida's drastic cutbacks in K12 school funding and the

>> loss

>> of teachers in every school, our adult education programs will be very

>> effective in helping K12 schools achieve their goals. We know who the

>> parents are, and we know how to help them build a home environment

>> that

>> fosters learning for all. We know adult education is win-win-win-win

>> for

>> parents, kids, employers and school systems. There are many ways to

>> design our package to show our partners how they stand to gain in big

>> ways from using our services.



>> Philip Anderson

>> Adult ESOL Program

>> Florida Department of Education

>> Tel (850) 245-9450

>> Philip.anderson at fldoe.org




>> Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of

>> service you received from our staff. The Department of Education

>> values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric

>> J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the

>> level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link

>> below. Thank you in advance for completing the survey.




>> http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson@fldoe.org|12:58:16%20Tue%2010%20Jun%202008




>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Kroeger, Miriam [mailto:Miriam.Kroeger at azed.gov] Sent: Tuesday,

>> June 10, 2008 10:52 AM

>> To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

>> Subject: [Assessment 1339] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy


>> You might also want to ask your adult students if they have children

>> in

>> school, what grades, and of course what schools. Ask them how their

>> children are doing. For persistent adult ed learners - keep track of

>> these "informal" stats, particularly if the children are attending a

>> school/schools close to your adult ed program. Then introduce

>> yourself

>> to the principal and tell him/her that several of your adult learners

>> have children at the elementary school, and they are reporting that

>> the

>> children are doing well, or improving. Does the principal see this?,

>> the children's teachers? Do they think there might be a correlation?

>> Would they want to work with you on a little "research project" to

>> confirm this??


>> Sometimes adult education is the best kept secret in the neighborhood.

>> -Miriam Kroeger



>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]

>> On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson

>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:26 AM

>> To: assessment at nifl.gov; tsticht at znet.com

>> Subject: [Assessment 1338] Re: Tests vs. Self Assessments of Literacy


>> In his reply, Mr. Sticht wrote:

>> "It seems to me to be a national shame to spend billions of dollars to

>> leave no children behind, while largely ignoring the desperate need of

>> the children's parents and leaving them behind. How can this be an

>> inspiration to children to pursue their own education? How can parents

>> who cannot read be their children's first reading teachers?

>> Conceivably,

>> if we invested more in the education of poorly educated adults, we

>> could

>> influence the educability of the adult's children."


>> I think this is one of the key components that's missing in alot of

>> adult literacy programs especially in rural areas across the US.

>> Ironically, alot of adult literacy programs are unable to partner with

>> school systems depending on how or who governs the adult literacy

>> program. I know in my state, public schools in some areas see us as

>> direct competition with them rather than an asset - rather than see us

>> as a resource to help parents, we're the 'bad guys' who take students

>> from their classrooms - which is definitely not the case.


>> Parents are one of the greatest influences on children of any age. If

>> parents don't have a strong academic background, then he/she may not

>> see

>> the value of encouraging their children to stay in school or achieve

>> in

>> school and may be unable to help his or her child achieve. Likewise,

>> they may even be unable to locate community resources that would help

>> their children like after school learning programs or tutoring

>> options.

>> There is a lot to be said about having better educated parents so

>> that

>> those parents can have a positive impact on the future of their

>> children.


>> The biggest hurdle though is how to remove barriers between adult

>> literacy programs and public schools (at least for me where I'm

>> located). Wouldn't it be great if teachers of low performing students

>> who had met with the parents and knew that the parents didn't have a

>> HS

>> education or had not completed a HS education (that is asked on entry

>> paperwork at the beginning of the school year when we send our kids to

>> school - they ask 'highest education level" of the parents) provided

>> information on local literacy programs that the parents might could

>> attend? Think about the impact on a child who could see his or her

>> mom

>> or dad learning and realize the importance of learning for themselves

>> as

>> well? I don't know how to get there, but I do think it's something

>> that

>> would make a positive impact on how ever children learn if we help the

>> parents learn as well.


>> Regards,

>> Katrina Hinson

>> -------------------------------

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